3 Things to Look at in Breech Plug Primer Pockets

Last in the series on breech plugs is the area where the ball starts rolling, the Primer Pocket. This little area is often over-looked but can tell us a lot about what is happening with the components of the loads we are working with.

This pocket is simply the recess in the breech plug where the primer sits. In all the breech plugs I’ve measured, there is very little variance from one manufacturer to the next. The best plan would be for the primer to fit this pocket as tight as possible. But being that we are using a primer that’s designed for something else (shotgun shells) and we’re using it for something other than that, that’s just not going to happen. As we all know, when 209 primers are put in a shotgun shell, they have a tight friction fit in the primer pocket of the shell. They are put in the shell with a press and removed by a press. In fact, at times shotgun and metallic case primers are so hard to remove that de-capping pins can break while removing them.

With all that said, the fit of the 209’s in a breech plug primer pocket is sloppy in comparison to the way it fits in a shotgun shell. It has to be in order for us to be able to get the darn things out after the rifle is fired. But this loose fit adds to a little issue we know as blow back. It was hard to write this article without getting into blow back issues too much because blow back is really its own topic, and there will be more coming on that headache later.

With the primer pocket, there were three areas I looked at:


          1) The Diameter
          2) The Depth
          3) And what the Length of the primer has to do with the head space, blow back and fire delivery.

First: the Diameter. The diameter is what it is and there wasn’t a lot of difference in that dimension between any of the manufactures. The CVA has a little looser fit than TC or the new BH209 plug.

The diameter of each is:


          CVA - .248
          TC - 245
          BH- .245


Our main concern with this dimension is how it relates to the diameter of the primers we put in in the hole. For the past few weeks I’ve started working with and testing primers much more in depth than ever before. The first thing I done was to measure all brands and types from top to bottom. I’m going to share all the information about the primers at a later time, but for now I just wanted to show you two of primer dimensions.  As it relates to the diameter of the primers, .238 was the smallest and found in 13 types all the way up to .244, the largest found only in Fiocchi 209’s.

During my primer test, removing the fired primers was not a problem, as expected, but lets wait and see what happens when I put about 100 gr. of juice in front of them later. I’m betting something is going to change with that.
 Second: The Depth.  Depth is next and in my opinion a big factor in both accuracy and making the rifle go bang. This is where we start getting into a little thing called Head Space. Now there’s going to be a few opinions out there about where head space lies on a muzzleloader, and I’m not going to say that my findings are the final answer, but I think it’s a good one and practical.

I’ve been reloading rifle ammo for 30+ years and I’m well aware of what head space is and where it’s checked on the different rifles and types of cases, but it’s a little harder to get a grasp on and control over with a muzzleloader. One reason for that is because of the difference of the length I found in the 13 different primers I’m testing. This dimention is much more critical than the diameter.  Let me show you what I’m talking about with a few measurements I’ve taken.


Primer Pocket Depth:

          CVA QRBP - .221
          BH 209 - .200
          TC Speed Breech - .200

Third:  Primer Lengths.  The longest primer measured was .302 and the shortest was .290. That’s a difference of .012 between the 13 different types, and that’s a lot when it comes to head space and how it translates to blow back to us muzzleloaders. In head space world that’s about 1.69 miles.


The way to look at it is like this; the longer the primer, the less travel space the primer has to the rear when the rifle is fired, therefore the less blow back we have and we have more fire going down the fire channel. The shorter the primer, and we can expect just the opposite.

Now the other part of head space is how close the back of the primer is to the frame or breech of the rifle. In TC’s, Bellm Custom has a set of shims that can be placed between the frame and the firing pin block. What this does is to move the firing pin block closer to the face of the primer. In CVA’s, I’ve read and been informed several times about using a larger “O Ring” behind the firing pin block. I’m sure this works because the new ring is thicker and will take up the gap between the block and the primer. One of the problems with doing this is that if you use a solvent based cleaner, the O Ring will swell and weaken and need to be replaced more often than metal shims. Just like the O Ring on the TC plug needs to be replaced when using these types of cleaners. I’m working with a company now to come up with a shim set for CVA rifles. I know that part of the purpose of the O Ring is to keep blow back out of that firing pin area, but to tell you the truth, that little ring really don’t do a great job of keeping that area clean anyway.

The problem with moving the block of either rifle closer to the primer is that if you want to try another load and use a shorter primer, you have to start all over again because the fit will be loose again. Another problem with moving this block is that you can move it to much and the rifle won’t close. The very first Pro Hunter with the new Speed Breech I put on my range had the problem of not closing with the Winchester Blue Box 209’s. That was only because those primers were longer than others. I’m sure a lot of you may have had the same problem.

Below is a list of the head space that I found from the primer to breech plug fit only, it has nothing to do with the primer to the face of the breech head space at all, but its all relevant, and  good to know.


These measurements were found by putting an un-fired primer in the primer pocket. Then I laid a 5/16 brass punch pin across the back of the breech plug and over the primer. I then used a set of feeler gages to measure the gap between the face of the primer and the back of the breech plug. 

As these measurements will show, the CVA plug has a little looser fit than the other two.

The TC has a tighter tolerance in this area and this is one of the reasons that TC’s have no problems with igniting BH209.


Out of the two dimensions I’ve talked about, the depth of the primer pocket is the most critical and there’s two things we can do that will help 1) be mindful of the primer we’re putting in it and 2) move the firing pin block.

The length of the primer at the end of the day is what makes the difference. I’ll have an entire article about primers coming soon. I’ve been surprised about what I’ve found so far and I believe you will be too. I can tell you for a fact that the fit and type of the primer we use has a lot to do with ignition and accuracy.


Out of all this Breech Plug issue and talk these are the four things that will help the new longer breech plugs ignite BH209, and all powders:


          1) The face of the breech plug having a nice dished out shape


          2) The primer fitting as tight as possible to the bottom of the breech plug primer pocket during firing.


          3) A nice transition area from the fire channel to the flash hole.
     
          4) a good quality primer (more on that soon)


Longer is not better, but it can be dealt with.


I’m not sure what’s next because I’m working so much good stuff. I’ll get one thing on my mind and then something else takes over!! If there’s something ya’ll want to know about, let me know and if I have it ready, I’ll do it and if not, I’ll look into it.

Quick Release Breech Plugs: the Length

The first topic on our continuing talk about this new age of quickly removable breech plugs is: The Length.


These new plugs had to get longer in order for us to be able to get our fingers on them,to be able to remove them quickly.  Longer is not necessarily a bad thing (unless it's a bad design)  but it is something to take into account when planning your load.


OK, so it's longer.  Now what?


Well, the first thing that has to be considered with the added length is the obvious increased distance from the business end of the primer to the powder.  (In primer world, this added length was like 1.23 miles!)

Primers only have so much juice, and so much juice only produces so much fire and hot gas.  Some very high-tech research has just gotten underway that will tell us what exactly is going on inside that fire channel, and sometime later this year that info will be available.  It will be extremely useful, but we're all just going to have to wait for the results.  For now, more fire is better.


Even though the 209 primer produces very hot fire, very fast, that fire also cools and reduces in it's intensity very rapidly while making that long trip.  You have to think how far the 209 SHOTGUN SHELL PRIMER was designed to throw it's fire to really put it in perspective.  But the right 209 primer in these new breech plugs is more than sufficient.


One way Thompson Center has reduced this distance from primer to powder is by dishing out the face of the plug, another topic for later.  I hope others follow suit with this feature, it has more value than just cutting the distance but more on that later.




The best fix: hotter primers.  This has always been recommended by Blackhorn  when using Blackhorn 209 Powder which has a higher flashpoint.  But hotter primers will help all the way around, regardless of what powder you shoot.  I really wasn't too fond of the higher impact primers with the shorter breech plugs, but they're looking more like the way to go with today's new breech plugs. 



 One of the main things to look for in a primer besides the fire it produces, is how consistent they are in producing the same amount of fire each time.  Some brands are noticeably more consistent than others.

Another key to making these new plugs reliable is to keep them clean, extra clean.  CLEAN.  A deep topic, but not for this post.


So, longer is not necessarily bad, if the design is good. But the two things we can control that will effect the performance in a good way are:


     1. More fire.


     2. Cleaner operating space for the fire we have.


In the next few weeks, I'm going to set up the range and do a current primer test.  It's been a two years since my last one (as seen in my DVD "Precision Fire Inlines" and also in a previous blog post "209 Primers & Modern Muzzleloading") and it's a good time for another one.  I have picked up a few thousand of 11 different 209 primers and I'm interested to see what the new ones are made of.  You can bet I'll share my results with all of you right here on the MAX Blog.


I gotta say that here and on MAX's Facebook, I might have just started talking about breech plugs, but in reality I've spent the last 6 months attending "Breech Plug University" where I'm about to graduate with a Master's Degree!  Ha!  The side-affect of all that research has been the really cool development of some items that will help with all that cleaning we have to do. 


But for now, that's my take on "Length".  Next we'll be moving on to "Fire Channel" (some may call it the "Flash Channel") and "Transition Area"....right here in a few days...

209 Primers & Modern Muzzleloading

As small as the 209 shotgun shell primer is, it has probably made a bigger bang than any other item in modern in-line muzzleloading.  People just don't realize it.

First, from it's very inception (and as suspected by our industry inventors) it has proven to be a very reliable source of ignition for our modern rifles when properly selected. With today's rifles and powders, the little 209 primer provides more than sufficient fire to ignite our modern rifles. And as I will discuss further in this post, they can and will provide extreme accuracy.

The second big bang these little items have caused are that of the legal kind! There is really no telling how much time and money manufacturers of modern muzzleloading equipment have spent getting the states to except this ignition source.  Although most hunters have excepted it, there are still a few states that are holding out, and still requiring a hunter to use the older types of ignition (like #11 caps, etc).


In the beginning, only the standard 209 shotgun shell primer was available because that's all there was. As time went by, the industry capitalized on the muzzleloading sport by marketing to us "209 Muzzleloading Primers". Many companies have jumped on the bandwagon; some for the money (same dern primer, but they charge us more) and some have truly made a better product for the modern muzzleloader.


By looking at the package we can tell which ones are meant to be used with muzzleloaders, but which ones really work? And which ones are best? And believe me, you better know, cause this one little thing can make or break a good load...or a good hunt.


The main question is: how "powerful" is the primer?


There are three factors that come into play to determine the answer to that question:


     1. How much explosive the primer contains.
     2. The diameter of the flash hole.
     3. The type of breech plug - more specifically, how long is the breech plug and
          how is the face (powder end) built?


To answer #1, a 209 primer has a lot of fire. In most cases, more than enough. As far as how much explosive any primer has, we may never know. But with the testing we've done at MAX, I would say that contrary to popular belief, the primers designed specifically "for muzzleloading" have a reduced amount of explosive. The best way that I've found to test primers to see how powerful they are, is to measure how much deflection they cause.


Keeping in mind that in order to conduct a test, you have to have a standard, here's ours:

First, the ingredients:

     Clean barrel

     Ramrod

     Flat-faced jag and T-handle

     Tape (or something to mark the ramrod with)
Primers (a variety)

Second, the recipe for testing:

     1.  Start with an un-loaded rifle with a clean, dry barrel.  Unloaded, unloaded, unloaded!

(can everybody say: UNLOADED?)

     2.  Then screw a T-handle and a flat-faced jag onto the ramrod. 

     3.  Take 6 to 8 patches and wet them with something like Butch's Bore Shine and then wring them out, as much as you can.  They should just be damp-ish.

     4.  Center a patch over your barrel end, then push it into the barrel using the flat-faced jag.

     5.  When the patched-jag reaches the face of your breech plug, wrap a piece of tape around the ramrod right at the end of the muzzle.  (I use painters tape cause it peels right back off without any mess).

     6.  Insert a primer.

     7.  Cock the hammer.

     8.  Pull the trigger.

     9.  Now, measure the amount of deflection the primer caused. 

      10.  Repeat  (NOTE!  Before you repeat with another patch and primer, be sure to clean the barrel so that you recreate the same barrel conditions for each test.  That's just good science!).

There are a couple of things that will affect the deflection you get in your testing.

1.  The type of breech plug .  The longer the plug, the less fire you get at the powder.  And, of course, a shorter plug = more fire. 

2.  The diameter of your flash hole.  A smaller diameter flash holes will provide less fire at the powder, larger hole = more fire.

3.  The shape of your breech plug face.  A flat faced breech plug will cause more deflection.  I prefer the style of breech plug that has the dished out or cupped face over the flat.  Dished out face = more fire.

Why are we going to all this trouble?  Only two little reasons:

          1.  To find the primer that will deliver the best accuracy and
          2.  To find the primer that will make the rifle go BOOM every time!


The way I use all this info is to cut to the chase as to what primer goes with which powder. 

For instance, when using Triple 7, I want a low impact primer.  For this reason I favor the Winchester 209 Triple-7 Primers and I also really like the Fiocchi 209...a lot! 

On the other hand, a higher impact primer will produce tighter groups in most cases when shooting Blackhorn 209.  Then I opt for primers that cause more deflection such as the CCI 209 M, Federal 209 A or the Winchester "Blue Box" 209.  These are 209's made for shotgun shells, full strength (and are recommended by Blackhorn).  Blackhorn 209 has a higher flash point than Triple-7 and needs the extra fire.



In either case, test 3 or 4 of each primer to insure that they are consistent and cause the same amount of deflection each time.  This is what will lead to accuracy, consistently.

I cannot tell you the times when I was hand-loading for center fire that the only thing standing between a 1-1/4 inch group and a 1/2 inch group was that itty, bitty little primer.  And the same is true here.

If there is a funny part to this, it's the cost.  I've seen muzzle loaders (and I'm going to have to include myself here) change everything including their socks trying to get better accuracy before they change the primer.  Ha!  Bullets, powder, sabots....but that cheap little, low cost primer can and will make all the difference in the world.  Bottom line, test your primers so you know what they do and when you're having problems getting good groups, change your primer FIRST!

Take the primer challenge.  Go spend a few dollars, buy some primers and see for yourself.  For the money, it could give you the biggest bang for your buck$.

3 Muzzleloading Components for Your Big Game Load

While hating to start off with the same line of options, options, options…I can’t help it, it’s even more true with load components than anything!

1. Bullets, 2. Powder, 3. Primers…within the categories, the choices are endless. In this post, I want to give you a few things to think about that will help you find loads that will provide you with consistency, accuracy and big game performance. Let’s start with bullets and what to look for.

BULLETS - First, lets talk about bullets that will hold up while shooting big game. The main thing here is to look for a bullet that will maintain most of it’s weight after impact and while penetrating the game. A bullet that comes apart on impact will not have much of a chance of penetrating in one side and exiting the other; not giving us the chance of having two holes for leaving a blood-trail out both sides.

Second would be a bullet with a good ballistic coefficient or BC. As most of you know, this factor is a number based on a few things: weight, length, shape, etc. Most muzzleloader bullets have a BC factor of between .180 to .240. Some muzzleloader bullets go over .300, but not many.

The BC factor gives us an idea as to how well a bullet will overcome the urge to decelerate due to air drag while in flight. The higher the BC factor, the better the flight we can expect from a bullet. What this comes down to is this: the higher the BC Factor, the flatter the flight path.

Flat flight path = less bullet drop = what you want.

There are a couple of things that really affect muzzleloader bullets and keep their ballistic coefficient low:

          1. bullet weight
          2. diameter
          3. length

In other words, they’re heavy, fat and short.

These things are a fact, it’s science. There is nothing we can do about it, so we just have to deal with it and compensate for it.  It’s not a problem but these factors, along with slower velocities, is what restricts and limits the range of even modern muzzleloaders.

In our testing, I’ve always opted to pick the higher BC Factor bullets and that will provide less drop and deliver more controllable and predictable flight paths at a range of 250 yards, and in some cases, 300 yards.

The bullets that will provide these results on a consistent basis are 250 to 270 grains, usually have a ballistic tip and have a BC Factor of .210 to .240 (with the right velocities).

This is a big subject, and I want to get into it much deeper, but it will have to wait for a future post. In the meantime, just keep a couple of brands in mind: Barnes, Hornady, Parker, PowerBelt, Precision, and Thompson Center.

POWDER - The next big factor in a load is Powder. Again, a lot of options. But in the case of powders they have been the easiest to figure out which ones are worth spending money on. What we look for in a powder is one that will have:

          1. reliability to ignite
          2. produce good consistent velocities
          3. resistance to moisture

After testing all the powders on the market (and I do mean ALL), the only two we trust for our hunts at this time are Blackhorn 209 and Hodgden Triple 7.

We recommend no one, ever, use pellet-type powders (another complete topic for another day).

Whenever I do this sort of thing, I always go in alphabetical order, so let’s start with Blackhorn 209. Blackhorn has been on the market for 3 years now and it is my powder of choice. It provides very consistent velocities, packs in the barrel very tightly, burns extremely cleanly, holds up very well against moisture, ignites very well, has an almost indefinite shelf-life and best of all, numerous shots can be fired without cleaning between shots without any loss of accuracy. It is best cleaned up with normal solvent-type barrel cleaners, which are much better on your rifle than water-based cleaners. And it cleans the other parts of your rifle much faster than any other brands, to include the breech plug and frame. About the only problem you can have with this powder is having to wait between shots because you can re-load and fire so quickly your barrel will heat up and affect accuracy.

Hodgdens Triple 7 is another good power. It provides great, consistent velocities and ignites well. It is lower in price than Blackhorn 209, but can clump up in the can during the off-season, so it does not provide as good of results the next year, so the lower price is a trade-off. We always replace Triple 7 while testing if the powder sits around for several months between our testing sessions. This tells me that is does not resist moisture well. Triple 7 is a mess to shoot, it leaves a lot of residue behind, however, it does clean up well with water-based cleaners. The barrel must be cleaned between shots to get consistent velocities and it is also very hard to load a second shot on top of a dirty barrel without swabbing because of the crust ring left behind in the breech after firing. This is not a problem on the range, but could be a real problem in a hunting situation.

PRIMERS - Primers are often over looked as being a solution when accuracy problems occur, but are most likely the culprit. We have a standard primer test we conduct on all primers before we ever use it to work up a load.

Our testing has shown this: for Triple 7 Powder, use a low impact primer such as the Winchester Triple 7 Primer or, my favorite for Triple 7 powder, the 209 by Fiocchi. Both of these primers will provide good results. The problem with the Fiocchi primers is they are super hard to find.

For Blackhorn 209, a higher impact primer is needed, or per Blackhorns manufacturer recommendations, a full-strength 209 shotgun primer, such as the “Blue Box” 209 by Winchester or the one Blackhorn themselves recommend (and per my findings, I have to agree), the CCI 209M.

So, there are the components that have proven, in our testing, to provide the requirements we demand: consistency, accuracy and big game performance.

As mentioned before, I’ll be posting on the some of the individual bullets and how they performed for us. But my next post will be on my recent trip to Miles City, Montana to visit the Blackhorn 209 facility there. You are going to be surprised at what I found! (hint-hint: powder vs pellets)